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SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENT PART 2, BOGIE AXLE RE-INDEXING

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Please make sure to follow the instructions in the order that has been described. Do not skip the factory designed steps.

If you have determined that the bogie axle needs adjusting, then you will have to re-index the fixing arm on the torsion bar since there is no adjustment rod on the bogie. The adjustment arm is splined to mount onto the torsion bar. Adjusting one spline will increase the weight approximately 500 pounds, depending on the wear in the torsion bar.

First, leave the coach jacked up using the bottle jacks to the ride height desired.

Next, place a bottle jack under the end of the fixing arm to remove the tire. Only jack it up until it just clears the ground, just like when you weighed the bogie.

Once you have removed the tire, measure from the center of the hub to the ground and record this measurement. This will come in handy later.

Remove the lower end of the shock, disconnect the air line to the brakes and lube the splines on the fixing arm and mounting bolts.

Adjust the brakes to lock the brake drum. Place a floor jack under the brake drum and remove the bottle jack.

Remove the two mounting bolts on the end of the fixing arm.

Using a center punch, mark the splines on the fixing arm and the torsion bar so that you have a reference as to where you started.

Do not use a wedge or chisel to spread the fixing arm. I once tried this and the chisel went flying about thirty feet across the shop, very dangerous. Also, you may deform the arm and not be able to retain the clamping force when reinstalling the end bolts. This will cause the splines on the fixing arm and torsion to become rounded and loose. Then you are looking at replacing both the arm and the torsion. :cry:

The fixing arm is only splined half way through, so you do not need to remove completely.

I found that the easiest way to remove the fixing arm is to use a puller. Many implement dealers have these large pullers.

Before you remove the fixing arm, let the floor jack down to relieve the pressure on the fixing arm and then jack it back up just until you have a slight bit of pressure on the fixing arm. This will allow you to use the floor jack to guide the fixing arm off of the torsion end and support it so that it does not fall.

Once you have removed the fixing arm half way, then slowly let the floor jack down until you have traveled the distance of how many splines you needed to adjust, lubricate the splines with never seize and then push the fixing arm back onto the torsion splines.

Check the marks you made on the splines to determine if you have re-indexed the arm to the determined amount.

If you have, then install the bolts back onto the end of the fixing arm. Depending on how many splines you moved, it may be necessary to drill out the bolt hole that goes through the splines on the torsion bar.

Place the bottle jack with the pressure gauge back under the end of the fixing arm and jack it up to remove the floor jack.

Using the measurement that you took earlier from the center of the hub to the ground, adjust the bottle jack until you have this measurement. Once you have, then check the pressure gauge to see of you have achieved the weight you desired. Add about 150 lbs. for the wheel and tire. If you have achieved the weight desired, then, reassemble everything and adjust your brake that was locked in place.

I am writing this from memory, so if I have left anything out or any of you have questions, please let me know.

Mount the tire and you are finished. Pretty easy, yeah right :lol: :lol:

Dan Lenz
Last edited by SmoothJazz on Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:34 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Daniel Lenz
Brownsville, Texas


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Re: BOGIE AXLE RE-INDEXING
Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:51 am

Piece-o-cake :shock:
van
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I posted some comments on adjusting the bogey in the other suspension. thread. I will paste those comments here and add a bit more information.

>>>paste from other thread>>>>>

On the bogey, you must remove the arm to move the splines on the shaft. Removing the arm is a real challenge. It is a split collar and Eagle is pretty clear not to spread the collar with a drift. I made a puller with chain and a hydraulic jack. I show a picture of the set-up at: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject3.htm. Photo is a thumbnail, so click on it to see a larger picture. Folks will tell you that a hydraulic jack will not work in a horizontal position. It will if you orient the jack so that the reservoir is on the bottom (my memory is that it was on the top, but the photo shows it on the bottom if one way does not work, try the other). Also be sure that the jack reservoir is at very full.

I think Dan probably mentioned it, but each spline change the loading of that bogey by 500 pounds. It is really important to do the boey. I would guess that the owners of my bus (Houston Metro) adjusted the front and rear at least once, but not the bogey. I weighed my bus empty on the way home and the front axle was close to being at the limit EMPTY :o . I had to adjust the bogeys five splines to get the loading correct!! That really took a load off the front axle. Scale readings show that I am pretty darn close to the factory load balance with the bus approaching the 38K GVW limit.

>>>>>>>end paste>>>>>>>>>>>

Now for a couple additional thoughts. I used a hydrualic engine puller to lift the bogey arm. On paper that should be a bit more secure way to support the arm. However, in my case, I did not get the hydraulic valve totally closed and the chain got some slack in it (I did not notice the slack). When the splines parted, the whole assembly dropped and I somehow had my hand under the drum (still don't know how that happened -- another trip to the doctor :( :( :().

Please be careful when you work with this heavy equipment!!!!!

I don't think that Dan made it clear that the front and rear adjustments should be done before you do the bogey.

I am not sure that I fully understand what Dan was saying about how to determine how much to adjust the bogeys. The manual gives the percentage of load that each axle should carry. As I recall, the bogey should be adjusted so that is carries slightly less than the front axle (Dan will probably give us better numbers).

The loading must be determined with some sort of system. You can use scales, or a hydraulic system that lifts each wheel (the manual shows a bracket you can build for the front and bogey axles). I used a hydraulic power supply and hydraulic jack that I had available (might be able to do it with a rented port-a-power). You must have a hydraulic pressure gauge in the line. Using a hydraulic jack with a pressure gauge will not give you a actual wheel weight (unless you want to do the math), but it will give you relative readings and that will work with the Eagle Manual procedure.

I did not make the brackets. Rather, I placed the jack in the same relative spot on each axle (very close to the inside of the tire). Once I checked the hydraulic pressure readings, I could not believe my approach. It said I needed to rotate the bogey five splines. I did that and found out it was correct by my jack system. Later I had the bus weighed at an FMCA rally (YOU MUST DO THAT) and it confirmed that I was very close.

I noted that one of the moderators changed the other suspension thread to a "sticky" so that it will alway appear at the top of the list. I will try to do that to this thread. (note: this is now a sticky thread that will remain at the top of this forum since it is important information)

Jim
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission - not at all fancy, but fully functional
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: http://beltguy.com/blog/
Email: jim@eaglesinternational.net Note: Email sent to the this address requesting technical advice will not receive a response
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beltguy
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Jim,

Do not go by percentages when determining the weight. The bogies are rated at 5,000 pounds each. You want the bogie to carry no more than 4,000 pounds. I think I mentioned this in suspension part 1. Percentages will get you in trouble as most of these coaches are carrying more than the GVW it was designed for.

Dan
Daniel Lenz
Brownsville, Texas


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Is there a trick to gettiing the bogies off the spline,my bolts were rusted and I had to drill those out, and tried Jim's jack puller with chains and have never gotten the bogies of yet.acording to the Eagle book and my scales I need 700# on the drivers side and 810 # on the passeners side do I round it off to the nearest 500# or what .I have the scale not the jack. thanks
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luvrbus
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Clifford, you made me go to my manual to see how they recommend setting the bogey. One place in the manual they recommend the following balance:

Front: 12%
Bogey: 15%
Rear: 23%

That is for one side and a rather strange way to present the information, but it does show how they want the balance.

On another page in the same section, it shows bogey weight as a funtion of the coach weight. Those values are roughly 11%. The table goes up to 30K for the bus and recommends a range of from 2975 to 3475.

So there seems to be some conflict within the manual. Part of the problem is that the bus is adjusted without passengers and luggage, while our coaches are set with what would amount to the maximum weight of the bus.

I sure hope that one of the "real" ;) Eagle experts weigh in here to give us better information.

Now to removing the arm. I was able to get the bolts out, so my corrosion was not as bad as yours. I used a very large jack and a BIG chain. It really strained both. These things "weld" themselves together via a process called "fretting corrosion". You need to break that bond. I spent days applying penetrating fluid, and then alternating with a bit of heat. My thought was that the heat (applied first) would draw in the penetrating fluid. I use PB Blaster which is said to be the best penetrating fluid by many folks. Ultimately, the bottom line is that it took a huge force to break the bond loose.

In terms of how to balance, my opinion is that the goal is to get close to the correct balance and call it good. If you consider the huge variation that buses had in loading and balance during passenger hauling, I don't think we need to worry about splitting hairs.

Update: I looked at my Manufacture (ID) plate and it has the following axel ratings:

Front: 11,700
Bogey: 10,000
Rear: 17,000
Total GVWR: 38700

I weighed my coach on the way home from picking it up (no seats, full tank of fuel, bays empty and it was:

Front: 7320
Bogey: 5000
Rear: 16020
Total: 28340

When I had my coach weighed in Pomona by RESEF (3/06) it weighed:

Front: 10650
Bogey: 9700
Rear: 16200
Total: 36,550

The bus had all of the major components installed and had a fairly large amount of product/booth equipment in the bays. The Series 60 was installed.

That would suggest that I got my suspension adjustments fairly close to what the factory wants. Please note that I had to adjust my bogeys five splines! Probably half of that was from raising the bus with the front and rear adjustments, but the other half was due to the bogey being a bit out of adjustment (see bare weight above)

A bit over a year later, we ran the bus across one of the Oregon weigh station scales and it was at 37,450 with full fuel 2/3 water and 1/3 each in gray tanks. It had about the same balance.

BTW, Oregon (maybe other states) leave their scales on when the truck weight stations are closed.

Jim
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission - not at all fancy, but fully functional
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: http://beltguy.com/blog/
Email: jim@eaglesinternational.net Note: Email sent to the this address requesting technical advice will not receive a response
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beltguy
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Sorry that the previous post got a little long, but I have seen folks ask about bare and finished coach weights, so I added that data.

Left unsaid in this thread (so far :D ) is the fact that just adjusting the front and rear axles without adjusting the bogeys boarders on being dangerous.

If you raise the bus very much (most need a coupe of inches after they are converted), it will unload the bogey and quite possibly overload one or both of the other two axles!

If you are going to adjust your Torsilastic suspension (a huge job) or have someone do it for you make sure all three axles are adjusted!

Jim
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission - not at all fancy, but fully functional
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: http://beltguy.com/blog/
Email: jim@eaglesinternational.net Note: Email sent to the this address requesting technical advice will not receive a response
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beltguy
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Jim,

You are right about making sure you adjust all three axles. You must follow the procedure to insure that it is done properly. it starts with the bogie or tag, then the drive and then the front. This is why I am labeling the threads Part 1, Part 2, etc. Again, let me say, do not go by percentages that are listed in the manual.

Clifford,

I would round up to the nearest 500 pounds in your case, as you may only get 400 pounds per spline, depending on the age of your torsion bars. Make sure if you are using floor scales that the front and drive tires are also blocked up to the same height as the floor scale so that you get an accurate reading.

Dan
Daniel Lenz
Brownsville, Texas


The work of an unknown good man is like a vein of water flowing hidden underground, secretly making the ground greener.
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Dan,does Craig do the adjustments there or is there a place in Brownsville that will do it.We will be there in 2 weeks to vist with Craig and Robin ,if I can get my wife in gear and leave AZ good luck
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luvrbus
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Clifford,

I spoke to Craig and he said that we could do the suspension adjustment here at the factory.

Dan
Daniel Lenz
Brownsville, Texas


The work of an unknown good man is like a vein of water flowing hidden underground, secretly making the ground greener.
SmoothJazz
 
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